Ep. 41: Dr. Jeffrey Thompson – Using the Power of Sound to Recover

If everything has its frequency, is there a frequency for healing different parts of the body?

The way we perceive our reality is as if every object or person is a solid thing. How could it not be? If it weren’t we wouldn’t be able to tear a piece of paper, or cut down a tree and even injuries wouldn’t be possible, right? But when we start breaking down the tissues, cells, the cells’ organelles, and we get down to atoms and subatomic matter we realize that most of the space is empty and that energy and frequency is what drives everything.

So no wonder that sound can actually heal.

You might be familiar with different states of consciousness (alpha, beta, delta, theta) and how they can be stimulated with binaural beats. But what Dr. Jeffrey Thompson does is a few steps beyond.

He’s the founder and director of the Center for Neuroacoustic Research in Carlsbad, California, and the creator of Bio-Tuning modality, with which he can actually discover the frequency of your own body and use it to target any of its systems to promote healing.

In this talk with Dr. Jeffrey, you’ll discover:

  • How sounds can not only help you heal physically, but also emotionally and mentally.
  • Which sounds are the best for which type of injury / healing.
  • How to fall asleep easily even if you have trouble doing that after an injury/accident.
  • What to do to speed up the healing process.

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Show notes & links

The show notes are written in chronological order.

  • Dr. Jeffrey Thompson’s website: https://scientificsounds.com
  • The LiveStream Events with Dr. Jeff: https://bit.ly/DrThompsonLive
  • The Center for Neuroacoustic Research | Dr. Thompson’s Bio-Tuning System measures the Heart Rate Variability (HRV), an indicator of the state of your health and fitness; and your body’s recovery and readiness levels.
  • Episode 5: Dr. Jeffrey Thompson – Vibrational Medicine and The Power of Sound in Healing
  • von Muggenthaler, E. (2001). The felid purr: A healing mechanism?. Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, 110, 2666-2666. [read it here]
  • Walter, N., & Hinterberger, T. (2022). Determining states of consciousness in the electroencephalogram based on spectral, complexity, and criticality features. Neuroscience of consciousness2022(1), niac008. [read it here]

00:00 – excerpt from the episode
00:55 – intro (listen to discover a little more about your host. Martin will tell you a new lesser-known fact about Dr. Maya)

01:31
Dr. Maya Novak:
The way we perceive our reality is as if every object or person is a solid thing. How could it not be? If it weren’t we wouldn’t be able to tear a piece of paper, or cut down a tree and even injuries wouldn’t be possible, right? But when we start breaking down the tissues, cells, the cells’ organelles, and we get down to atoms and subatomic matter we realize that most of the space is empty and that energy and frequency is what drives everything. So no wonder that sound can actually heal. This is why I was so excited to have a conversation with Dr. Jeffrey Thompson when we got connected back in 2019 and he was one of the guests on my Mindful Injury Recovery World Summit. This episode is that conversation and once you’re done listening to this one, check out episode 5 as well – because there’s another amazing interview waiting for you. Enjoy!

02:30
Dr. Maya Novak:
In this interview, I’m joined by Dr. Jeffrey Thompson, who is a brainwave entrainment expert, composer and musician, and one of the world’s top researchers of healing properties of sound. He has been pioneering this field since the early 80s, and he’s one of the stars in an incredible documentary Heal. He is the founder and director of the Center for Neuroacoustic Research in Carlsbad, California where he both helps people with his wellness methods and teaches other professionals how to apply them. One of his biggest achievements is the Bio-Tuning modality, a scientifically proven method that allows to identify an individual’s voice frequency and use it to amplify the potency of sound to help heal the body, heart, mind, and spirit. Dr. Jeff, thank you so much for being here.

03:20
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

03:23
Dr. Maya Novak:
Well, I’m extremely excited about this interview. For those who don’t know you yet, can you please share a bit about when and why you became interested in healing with sound?

03:36
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
I started out in the 60s, I went to art school and I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree. I was a filmmaker, musician and then – and I graduated and was out in life and had some businesses. Years later, 10 years later, I went back to school, which was a chiropractic school, graduated, and got into practice. My first eight years of practice were in Virginia. The story behind that is kind of a crazy one, but the high points were at a critical point when I was forming a film production company my best friend – he had gone off to chiropractic school - and he was calling me up and saying come on out here to Iowa and see what these guys are up to. All the esoteric stuff that you’ve been exploring in the past, and the spiritual stuff, it’s all here. It’s all in your body in miniature. It’s like the body is a textbook of universal law in microcosm. So if you were to learn the nth degree of medical science about physiology and anatomy, you would see it all there. So I went out and he took me around the school. I talked to a bunch of people. I got totally sold. Came back and started talking myself out of it because I’ve got a whole houseful of stuff, and artwork, and films, and books, and so on. I'm talking myself out of it and I think my circle of elders up there is looking down for me and going oh no, he’s making the film making decision, what are we going to do – so they burned my house down and I lost everything that I ever had done. All my artwork, all my films, all my cameras, and everything that I’d ever had. I didn’t have a toothbrush, and I had one shoe. But the insurance money was just enough to travel to Iowa and set myself up and I could travel light. That’s kind of why I say I’m kind of drafted for this job. Somebody’s up there making sure I’m on the right track because I tend to be a little dense. Anyway, so here I am in Virginia in the largest holistic health center in Virginia as a young greenhorn with another guy who got hired at the same time. We essentially took over that whole practice. It was a giant practice. The whole idea there was to pack as many holistic therapies under one roof as possible. Every patient who came in would get the most thorough exam you could ever imagine. We did cranial and cranial sacral and chiropractic. We did organ and gland bio magnetics. We had the first laser acupuncture in the country – we made the front page of the newspaper. In nutrition, we had a blood lab for doing nutritional studies. We had a fulltime colon therapist. It was in that environment that I began exploring sound frequencies. The guy who owned that clinic, who became my mentor, the most amazing healer I ever saw. He ended up in an investment scheme that blew up in his face and he was forced to declare bankruptcy. The other greenhorn and I bought that whole clinic from the bankruptcy court for a song and a dance and I ended up with the largest holistic health center in the whole state in my lap in my first year of practice. So that’s the universe saying yes to you. The doors open one way, and they close another way if you just start to get sensitive to watching where the doors are opening and which ones are closing. In my case, the doors slam and fly off the hinges. Anyway, so at a certain point, I realized I’m a successful doctor and I’m making money for the first time in my life. I realized at one point I could do something I’ve always wanted to do and that is make an album as a composer and a musician. So I took out my first bank loan and I bought the top end equipment that was available at the time and put it in my spare room. Fancy schmancy electronic keyboards, and mixing boards, and professional records, and racks of equipment. Then at one point, my wife at the time wanted me to work on her back, because I’m chiropractor, right. So I popped up the portable table in the spare room like I always do and put her on the table and all of a sudden I realized that I’ve got somebody in a treatment table in a recording studio. This was a set up by the way, by my circle of elders. I’m thinking to myself, I wonder if I could make a chiropractic adjustment with a sound wave. Every vertebra is a different shape, density, and mass like a stack of wine glasses, right. So if I find the frequency for this wine glass, and I make that one vibrate with my voice, this one, and this one, and this one, that are different wine glasses aren’t going to resonate because they have different frequencies than that. So I set up an experiment and it was successful. I put a speaker on her back. I did some testing to find out the frequency for her fifth lumbar and put a speaker on her back, and in a couple of minutes, it was done. I had resonated that vertebrae and caused it to float in a state of resonance and disconnect from the bone above and below it. Then I brought that back to the clinic and for the next nine years, I developed that technique. First, it was vertebrae. Then it was cranial work. You can target a specific cranial bone and make it float in a state of resonance in relation to the other cranial bones. Then all you have to do is take a really big inhale and big exhale to reseat it. So I was doing cranial work with never touching you, except with a sound wave. Then we graduated that into organs and glands. Could we affect organ and gland function with sound frequencies, could we affect subtle energy fields with sound frequencies, emotions, emotional states, chakras and things like that? We don’t use the c-word – it’s the postganglionic neurological centers that have a synapse into each gland in the body. But all of that led to the big epiphany, which is essentially the big holistic idea based on the idea that inside my body is organic biological intelligence that knows how to grow my body out of two cells and differentiate the tissues and make them all run on automatic without me thinking about it. And that’s happening right now. So under the hood, there’s a deep part of me that’s connected into the universe, connected into the earth, connected into all other living creatures. That part of me is functioning right now. It’s the one who governs the healing. It’s a miraculous thing. I cut myself and as if by magic, the blood stops by itself, it then closes up, some kind scab forms, and it drops off, I’ve got a little line, and it all did it by itself. The body is doing that every second of the day on 100,000 levels in your body. Balancing things, healing things, rebuilding things, all by itself. When it’s not doing that, then I have some kind of symptoms showing up. From a holistic standpoint, something is blocking the natural healing abilities from expressing themselves. So a holistic practitioner’s job is to help remove whatever blockage that is with a variety of different techniques. I use sound waves. I use various forms of chiropractic, some of those I’ve come up with myself. I combine acupuncture and magnetic fields and a bunch of different things together, but the core of it is sound. Other people use different combinations or methods, but the bottom line is that approach is the same in the holistic world, removing the blockages from the internal healing system to do its job. As opposed to an allopathic approach and medical approach that looks upon the body as some kind of stupid lump of meat that doesn’t know what to do for itself, and that we, the great wise ones, will do so for you. It involves powerful toxic chemicals and injections of various things and surgeries of various kinds. So in the ICU, and in the Emergency Room when you’ve had a severe accident and you need somebody to save your life, that’s where modern medicine shines. But for regular illnesses that are not pathologic yet or the regular stuff of life, you don’t want to use the tools of pathology to treat regular functional conditions because when you do that you create dysfunction, you create disease. So the big epiphany was that I could see organs responding precisely to sound frequencies because I had a blood lab. I could watch your liver enzymes change, plus a number of other testing techniques that we would do. It occurred to me at one point, wait a second, the brain – that’s an organ. What if I could find the frequency for the brain because what the brain does is tell all the other systems what to do? So then the next epiphany after that is wait a second, any kind of symptom I might have from my back, or my digestion, or my liver, or whatever, it’s only – those systems are only doing what they’re told to do. It’s not their fault if they’re exhibiting a symptom. It didn’t arise from them, it’s because the central command has gone awry, or it’s become out of tune and it’s not sending the correct signals out and balancing the dance anymore. So the dance is beginning to drift, and when it does so, alarms go off. The body is saying hey, excuse me, but we’re adrift down here. Things aren’t functioning 100% the way they should. We’re doing extra work and our tissues are breaking down, please do something. That’s what the symptom is for. What you don’t want to do at that point is to have your whole treatment plan silencing the symptom. It doesn’t serve you because what’s under the hood is still festering and getting more imbalanced over time, but you just can’t feel it anymore. So that was the big thing, to try to see if I could find a frequency for the portion of the brain that tells the body systems what to do. In the beginning, I cross-referenced the imbalances of various systems to test against a frequency that would all them balance out of the same point. Thinking that if I could find a frequency for the common denominator that told them all what to do, which I think would be the brain, or some area in the brain, that all the imbalances that I found in all the systems that I was testing through would clear up at the same time with a single frequency. When I saw that happen, that’s when I felt that I had – was face to face with my destiny, my dharma. What I was here for. I said oh my god, nobody’s doing this stuff. This is crazy. I can’t believe this is for real and this needs to be researched fulltime. This is so big. So I sold my practice, I sold my house, and I moved from Virginia to California where they don’t lock you up in a straightjacket for these kinds of crazy ideas! Virginia was way too conservative for that, although I did get a cool thing happen. After I’d been in Virginia for a number of years and became well known for what I was up to, particularly brain entrainment and binaural beats and all that stuff, I got included in an NRH grant and headed up the program for the binaural beat brain entrainment research for sleep at the University of Virginia Medical School. So at one point, they were paying my way on a plane to fly back to Charlottesville to the University of Virginia Medical School, the State that I left because these ideas were too crazy for there.

15:29
Dr. Maya Novak:
Mm-mm.

15:30
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
It was a ka-ching moment for me. But anyway, so I established a research center and a clinic here in San Diego in California in 1988 and I’ve moved around and had a number of different offices here and there in North County, San Diego. That system continued to evolve until a brand new type of device became available called heartrate variability and I came across that. I was on the faculty of a graduate school in California, a research center and a graduate school, so that means that this work that I’ve been doing is officially recognized by the State of California for Ph.D. credits for psychotherapy and human science.

16:13
Dr. Maya Novak:
Wow. This is an incredible story.

16:16
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yes. So here I am in my clinic, which was now in the school. I have my office and my clinic in the school. One day there’s a knock on the door and there’s some guy there, some old guy that I’d never met before, and he’s saying are you Dr. Jeff Thompson? I’ve read about you and I’ve got this device kicking around in my garage and I’m looking for somebody to give it who might be able to use it. I said what is that. He said it’s a heartrate variability. What’s that? Well, it measures your heart waves and does different maths and then it pops up screens that show you your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system on the screen. I’m going what? You’re talking about the master control system that tells all systems in the body what to do, and you see it on a computer screen? And he says yeah, yeah. I said well yeah, I’m interested. How much do you want? Oh no, I’m just giving to you – and then he left. I was like okay. Every once in while the clouds open up, the hand comes down and it says you’re supposed to this now.

17:18
Dr. Maya Novak:
Yes, and it’s just incredible how the universe works when we are on the right track and how fast things can start moving.

17:27
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
It’s a surge of synchronicities. It’s the mind-blowing serendipitous dance that you enter into with the universe when you pay attention.

17:35
Dr. Maya Novak:
True, true. Is there - since we are talking about sound healing, is there a difference between music therapy and sound therapy?

17:45
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Traditionally, there’s a big difference. So music therapy, you can become a certified music therapist, right. So music therapy has done great work, but it’s basically musicians who go to hospital grounds or to nursing homes and play music for people. Music has great potential and healing properties just because it puts you into – it’s the language of the emotions. It’s the language of the emotional body. My physical body and my emotional body are deeply connected. I personally believe that his idea that my physical body and emotions and my mind, my self-defeating belief systems, all of those are just semantics. Really people made up those words to make sense of the universe. So we put – we’re the naming creatures. Everything has to have a name.

18:41
Dr. Maya Novak:
A title.

18:42
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yeah, and then we believe in the names and we believe that because there’s a different name for different parts of the universe that those parts are actually separate from each other, but that’s not so. The universe is a homogenous whole. There’s no place where my physical body ends and my emotions begin and my self-defeating begin, and my spirit begins. It’s all the different states of the same kind of things. So that means if it’s true that I can’t have a low back problem that doesn’t have its emotional counterpart and its self-defeating system counterpart, and it’s a spiritual issue. It’s just a matter of what’s the percentage mix. I can have a dozen people come in with exactly the same symptoms of lower back pain and this person here, it’s 90% physical and this person it’s 75% emotional. It’s untangling it, but one affects the other. So it really doesn’t matter if you’re good or what you do, or which doorway you enter into first. I could affect your emotions by working on your back and I could affect your back by working on your emotions. If I can work on your back and your emotions and your self-defeating belief systems and your spiritual issue simultaneously, or make sure I address all of them, then you have a much better chance of becoming totally healed of all the stuff that’s going on and that’s kind of the approach. But that should be what a holistic approach is anyway, right. So for me, I start at the neurological side, the physical side. So I can hook you up to this heartrate variability monitor and then I actually helped develop a new type of heartrate variability monitor that was real time and not a snapshot. I wanted to see the sympathetic-parasympathetic moving live. Then I can run you through some simple tests to see if your nervous system is functioning normally. [inaudible Raglan?] Normally when you lay on your back, gravity stress – where the gravity pulls the blood out of my head and initiates the stress response that raises the blood pressure just enough to equalize that. But that should relax when I lay on my back, no more gravity stress. So I should see blood pressure respiration, heart rate, and sympathetic stress response collapse down to zero – zero stress within three minutes when I lay on back. That’s called the test. It’s a first-year clinic test that you learn to evaluate stress-handling systems in the body. So I lay you on your back, and I should – because I’m looking at this monitor I should see the sympathetic – have a little bit of tone from gravity stress and I should see it collapse down to this state called homeostasis – zero stress in the system within three minutes. When I began doing these, I beta tested this system for six years with hundreds and hundreds of patients, and one thing I saw is that people lay on their back; the sympathetic does not collapse down. It doesn’t collapse down in its normal period of time. After five minutes, after 10 minutes, it’s still on. That’s clinical evidence of a persistent sympathetic tone, which means a runaway fight or flight response that’s not ending, locked in. After a while, I’m thinking wait a second, not every single person who comes into my office can have the same underlying condition. Statistically, that wouldn’t make sense unless I’ve discovered a new condition that people don’t know about yet because I’ve got a unique device that can measure something that nobody has measured before. My current thinking about that is that it’s got to do with the 21st century. We’ve all got our story. I mean basically the story of life is you’re born, and then the life beats you up and there’s some good things thrown in there, right. You’re exposed to all kinds of stresses and then you get the one-two punch every once in a while.

22:42
Dr. Maya Novak:
Especially if we’re talking about accidents and injuries. They’re a huge disruption and we are definitely not in a relaxed state when we are such a turmoil with everything physical and emotional and mental going on.

22:59
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yeah.

23:01
Dr. Maya Novak:
You described how you are working with clients and how you started with your wife on the table. Now, if we are talking about a person who is potentially on the other side of the world and for whom it’s impossible to come to you to your practice, how can people do sound healing at home, and do we need speakers or is it enough if we are listening on headphones? How does this work?

23:38
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yeah, after a while of working with patients it started to become apparent that certain types of sounds and certain relationships of sounds and certain brainwave entrainment frequencies that can entrain your brainwaves and change your state of consciousness worked best for this and this kind of condition. That became the foundation for a series of generic soundtracks that I started to create to entrain brainwaves to specific states for healing specific different things, for instance. Some of that spun from research and some from sleep research. So, for instance, in sleep, like for right now when you and I are talking our brainwaves are rapid, 15 hertz-20-hertz beta, that’s externally directed single focus kind of left-brain linear activity task oriented. Then if my brainwaves slow down, and slow down, and slow down and hit around 13 hertz, I pass into alpha. When I’m going to sleep, my beta function is collapsing down, crossing over the alpha bridge kind of zone, and slowing down more and more and my attention is going inwardly now. So alpha is more inner-directed non-linear holographic kind of thinking, it’s the big picture thinking. A hallmark of alpha is peripheral vision. Beta is single focused vision, say looking at the tree, and alpha is looking at the forest as a whole. So that’s where mental activity is happening and that’s where mental activity is healed, in sleep, in alpha because that’s all mental activity. When I pass into theta, dreaming sleep, that’s emotional. Dreams are emotional. I’m creating a whole world and then believing it. It’s I’m being chased by the bogeyman, or I’m having a love affair and truly in love and it’s all very real. But that’s where emotions are getting healed at night in the theta portion of dreaming sleep. The language of the unconscious mind is where I am and the basement of my subconscious is dealing with allegorical and metaphorical images, which is the language that my unconscious speaks. Then when I cross into the deepest brain activity in delta at around 3-4 hertz that is physical healing. That’s where my physical body goes into its lowest metabolic rate, lowest heart rate, respiration and blood pressure, body temperature. That’s when my physical body is healing itself for the next day. So if I use brain entrainment to create a series of soundtracks in alpha and beta and delta – which is where I began – we can center the healing in the area that it needs and we can move from one to the next. I always start out in delta. The reason for that is because the autonomic nervous system that controls all the organs and glands and all the systems, that tells them all what to do with these two big giant nerve branches that come down – sympathetic and parasympathetic – that’s a physical structure. My stress handling system is a physical structure and it handles all the stresses that I might experience physically – back pain, organ imbalances, biochemistry problems, meridian chi flow. All those are physical things that are handled by a physical system, but my emotional trauma is also handled by this same physical system. My self-defeating belief systems and what they do to me is also handled by a physical system. So I need to repair the physical system first. When you think about it, the reason I’m holding toxins in my fat tissues and my cells, and the reason I’m holding traumatic emotional engrams in my subconscious mind, or why I am continuing to not de-crystalize self-defeating belief systems is because my body has to do a self-diagnosis before it can release something. In other words, my physical body is saying hey, I want to release these toxins I’ve got in my cells here. The body says give a second, let me just do a self-diagnosis and make sure that I’m up to handling this extra stress. Then I realize oh, my stress-handling system is all screwed up. I’ve got all kinds of problems. I’m way overloaded. No way can I do that. So I’ll hold it. That’s why I’m holding it because the system is too inefficient to release it in a timely manner as it should do. The same thing with emotions, I’m holding them because it’s too stressful to release them because my stress handling system is compromised. That’s what I was seeing on the heartrate variability. You come in and you lay down and the clutch does not push in, it’s running a flight or fight response all the time. Part of that is because my body was designed for the environment of 70,000 years ago, not what we’ve got right now. I mean you wake up with the sun and you grab your spear and you go chase some little animal, and that’s your workday. You catch the animal, you bring it back, you skin the animal, you make a stew, you make sandals, you pick berries. This is insane. This is alarm clocks and quick breakfasts and traffic jams and jobs that don’t pay you enough money working for a boss who’s the emotional development of a three-year-old. I mean does this sound familiar to anybody. Then you come back home and it’s a quick dinner and the kids with homework, and then at 7:00 o’clock news to relax and watch the world burn. Then you set the alarm and you do the same thing tomorrow and the day after, and the day after, and the day after for 20 years, 30 years. No. This is not healthy.

29:22
Dr. Maya Novak:
And then, if we talk about injuries – if an injury affects or adds even more oil to the fire with the stress response – it is important to care of this fight and flight response and go more into the relaxed state, right? I mean, if we want to really heal the physical body.

29:44
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yeah. So I’ve been in practice now for almost 40 years, and every year that goes by I’m more convinced than ever that stress handling, and my ability to handle stress, is the ultimate cause of all disease. I mean just look at the word – disease. It’s dis-ease. I am no longer in a state of ease; I am in a state of stress. So the core component is, for me, I’m using soundwaves and medical monitors. I’m hooking you up. I’m watching a monitor. I’m seeing the imbalance and I’m using soundwaves to make it come back. The sound frequencies are making it come back. Now, if I can use those sound frequencies to make this come back every time it comes back. Because I can put – as good as your sound is – I can put it on a little device and you can listen to every day with headphones. Now you’re going to the gym for your autonomic nervous system. Every time you listen to the soundtrack it pushes in the clutch, and every time it pushes in the clutch you get stronger to push in that clutch, like going to a gym. We’re muscling up your body’s return to its normal ability to handle stress and neutralize the stressful elements of the environment constantly testing my defense lines. Health kind of boils down to two major categories – things that happen from the outside in and things that happen from the inside out. I’m hit by a truck or I’m stressed out and that’s screwing up my digestion and that makes my small intestine meridian get activated and my organs get activated and my – I mean the whole thing starts to come apart from the inside out instead of the outside in. Everybody’s got elements of both.

31:34
Dr. Maya Novak:
We'll continue in just a moment. I wanted to quickly jump in for two things. First, thank you for tuning in. And second, I’m sure you have at least one friend, colleague, or family member who would very much appreciate this episode. So share it with them and help us spread the word. Now let’s continue…

31:55
Dr. Maya Novak:
Mm-mm. Would you say that if we are talking about slow healing, if someone is facing slow healing, maybe a fractured bone that just doesn’t want to heal? Is taking a look into the stress and how we are handling the stress one of the things that is necessary to also talk about, and think about and work on?

32:20
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yeah, I think it’s essential. So just in the study of anatomy and physiology of how the body is put together – the body is basically based on two simple rules complicated in the execution. But the two simple rules are: rule number one – survive at all costs. That’s the most important thing that the body has to do. That’s the primary directive. Survive at all costs. Number two, do no self-harm. Be as ecological as possible. Get the most work with the least amount of energy expended. Always look for ways of cutting corners in order to save life energy. That’s pretty much it. So that means that if I feel that my life is being threatened and I turn on the sympathetic nervous system and my fight or flight response, and we know really, really well what happens under the hood when that takes place, right. So it’s a cascade of events. The sympathetic turns on, it signals my pituitary gland, which signals my adrenal glands to raise my blood pressure and heart rate and respiration. Adrenalin suppresses my pancreas so that I liberate extra glucose to be hyper strong – the lift the car off the little baby kind of a thing. I pull all the excess energy from my gut, my elimination system, my immune centers, my higher brain centers and I put that energy in my muscles to fight for my life. So I’m not adjusting anymore. I’m not eliminating toxins. My immune system is compromised. My brain concentration and memory is impaired. If I’m running that chronically in a circle that lasts for decades, I’m never working on this little list of daily maintenance routines because the energy to do so has been removed and put into my muscles to fight for my life. That’s on hold, except now it’s on hold permanently and that means I’m burning up all my resources and I’m not doing the daily maintenance repair. Then my body will not allow me to go to the deepest stage of delta sleep because that’s when I’m most vulnerable and most difficult to wake up. I’m sleeping with one eye open because I feel I’m threatened. So at the critical point when at least that could help, it’s not helping. It’s a testament to the design of the body that it can do this for 30 or 40 years before it blows a fuse. Just burn up all its resources and get one symptom after another and one symptom after another, and then you do the medical doctor who gives you some pill, which is a very powerful chemical in the most delicately balanced chemical laboratory in the world. Now you’ve got a new problem to deal with at a point when you’re at your weakest. And that leads to a whole society of abnormally sick people because of the 21st-century stresses that are a marathon of stress for a body that was designed for a sprint, with all the chemical medications that we’re taking that are messing my whole biochemistry system up. The stresses of ordinary life, plus my regular story – and everybody’s got their story of being beat up in life, right? We’ve all got our stresses. We all have our story, stressful stories that imbalance us, superimposed on top of the 21st century, which is a marathon of stresses. There’s fumes and electromagnetic fields and 500 radio channels and military frequencies and shortwave and 5G and Wi-Fi and it just goes on and on.

35:51
Dr. Maya Novak:
Yeah, and what you said in regards to the delta state and deep sleep, so many injured people right now, I think, agree that after an injury, and especially if we’re talking about serious injury, it’s pretty hard to fall asleep and achieve deep sleep. And that might be because it’s just uncomfortable. But as you described, we might feel threatened because something huge happened and now we cannot fall asleep. So what would you say to someone who has difficulties falling asleep after an injury?

36:28
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Well, from the one hand that’s why I was creating generic soundtracks because not everybody can come to my office. So if you – so one thing to do is there’s this one sleep CD that I made – The Delta Sleep System – specifically to put you into the deepest delta stage of sleep, that’s the that usually is missing, to power and recuperate that sleep mode. As a matter of fact, there’s a story behind that one. That was when my son was an infant he would not go to sleep for more than 30 minutes and I was up all night long. Maybe four hours sleep every night and pretty soon I’m wilting and I realized, wait a second. Put your money where your mouth is. I said make a sleep CD and put this kid to sleep. Use everything you know. So I went and I made this delta sleep CD, and CD number one and track number one, at nine minutes – kabang, he was out and I saved my life. But it was a crazy thing to create it. I’d never done anything like that before. So here I am creating these deep delta sleep-inducing brain entrainment things in a sleep-inducing soundtrack that’s fast and flowing. Then at some point, I had to listen to that as an audio engineer to see if there was any glitches or anything in it before I could release it and I couldn’t hear it all the way through. I literally fell off my chair.

37:51
Dr. Maya Novak:
Wow. That’s powerful.

37:53
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Then I’m thinking to myself, wait a second, as an artist if this really works, nobody’s ever going to hear my work! [laughs]

38:02
Dr. Maya Novak:
[laughs] That’s really good advice. Sound is really, really powerful. I’m a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine by degree, and there is an old veterinary saying that goes something like this; if you put cat and bunch of broken bones together in a room, then the bones will heal.

38:24
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
That’s true.

38:25
Dr. Maya Novak:
So is there something about cat purrs and healing broken bones?

38:29
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yeah, there is research – a whole series of research projects done with that. So they first noticed that with big cats – lions and tigers and things like that. Those cats were purring, but only after they were injured. When they started measuring that, they noticed that there were different purrs and different frequencies of purrs for different types of injuries. So muscle injury is one kind of purr, and a bone injury is another kind of purr, and tendon-ligament injuries is a different type of purr. Different frequencies target different body densities. This wasn’t a surprise to me because I was already doing that in my clinic in Virginia. So if you come in with a disc problem in your fifth lumbar then we can test for what’s the octave and sound waves that resonate the cells of that disk, like wine glasses. If we can find that frequency, then we can boost the cells into their highest possible energy state, which from a physiological standpoint is a healing response. When the cells go into a healing response, they increase their metabolic rate, their intake of food, expelling of waste, and rebuilding of tissue, right. So if we use a soundwave to wake that part up and boost it to its highest energy state – like the wine glass. I’m going to sing louder, and louder, and louder and the wine glass is going to start vibrating more and more until it can’t contain its own energy anymore and it’s going to explode. So just before that point, the atomic structure of the wine glass material is at its highest possible energy state that it can contain. If we can do that to the cells of your disc, we can use that for rehab. We can boost the cells to a higher energy state and speed up the healing response. So instead of taking 12 weeks, it can take six weeks. So we can target all kinds of different things. In the body, low-frequency vibrational rates, which is why, at one point, I developed this sound table as a low-frequency delivery system - for these low-frequency vibration rates. So in the body, vibration is separate from hearing. Hearing is the temporal lobe in your brain and vibration sense is four skin sensors spread out throughout all your skin at different depths. Those skin sensors are sensitive to a different vibrational range. Over all four, that range is 0.3 to 500 hertz, that’s what the body considers to be vibration sense. Above 500 hertz, you don’t feel it, you hear it. Between 500 hertz and 20 hertz – 20 hertz is the lowest range of hearing – so between 20 and 500, I both hear it and feel it. So as a clinician, I would want to make sure that the soundtracks that I produce have a lot of instrumentation between 20 and 500 hertz so I can synchronize up those two systems and make them function better. The body loves to be synchronized. That’s the beauty of the binaural beat phenomenon where I have one tone, and one tone slightly out of tune, that creates a pulsing between them. If I tune them just right, the pulsing is a brainwave speed and that forces my brainwaves to lock onto that because that’s how my body clocks work. My brainwaves will lock onto the speed of that pulse and entrain to it. I can change a person’s state of consciousness through this technique by altering your brainwave function into another state by leading it with this frequency following response. Anyway, so when I do a binaural beats with two tones slightly out of tune creating this pulse in headphones – so this has 105 and I hear a 5 second pulsing that’s a theta wave, my brainwaves will go into that and I’ll go into a dream state without going to sleep first. That’s the classic trance state. But because there’s never been a time in nature when this ear hears something that this ear doesn’t hear, and vice versa, right. In nature, any sound that comes from over here, I can also hear some of it in this ear. There’s never a time when I don’t hear one thing in the other. So with headphones, it’s a unique new experience where this is different from this. This hemisphere listens to this ear and this hemisphere listens to this ear. The two hemispheres are going I’m receiving a weird thing here. I’m hearing something – are you hearing that? No, I’m not hearing it. I’m hearing this, are you hearing that? No. Well is this a threat? Because that’s why I’ve got my five senses stuck out into the world to see if I’m being threatened. So any new phenomenon that’s weird is a potential threat and I’d better have an alarm response just to be on the safe side, right. So the hemispheres synchronize up and talk to together. This is this hemisphere synchronicity phenomenon where all of the pathways light up across the corpus callosum and the two hemispheres talk to each other and compare notes to see if this a threat. Hemisphere synchronicity is not a small thing. It’s a big thing. It’s a rare thing. But it’s where all the good stuff happens. It’s where the epiphanies take place. Where the moment of a problem gets solved takes place. It’s where all these ecstatic state things happen. It’s highly desirable. It’s also the EEG phenomena of people in very high states of meditation, so enlightenment and nirvana and mindfulness if that’s the correct word – mindless fullness.

44:05
Dr. Maya Novak:
Yes!

44:07
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
All right. We know what that looks like. I mean there’s tons of research projects that have been done into what do different conscious states look like on EEG. One of the hallmarks of enlightened states is a certain configuration of brainwaves and always the synchronicity phenomenon. Hemispheres are always synchronized. So when I want to approach how do we use science and technology to induce extremely high states of self-awareness and “enlightenment” or whatever, high states of meditation. Then we couple this idea of entraining your brainwaves to wherever we want them to go - with research with EEG that shows where does the brain go when it gets to these highly desirable states. Let’s reproduce that state within entrainment technology and put you right there. You can bring a horse to the water, but you can’t make it drink, but you can hold its nose and pour water down its throat and stack the deck in your favor, you know. Then you can use that as training wheels and bring about states.

45:15
Dr. Maya Novak:
Yes, may I ask you – talking about sounds and tracks that you also have – is there an appropriate amount of time that we have to listen to these type of things per day? We are talking about healing from injuries, and it doesn’t matter if it’s a small or a really serious injury that usually takes longer to heal. Is it like five minutes per day that is enough? Or is this something that would be beneficial to listen to for one hour, or maybe a couple of hours? Where is the balance? How long, how much?

45:53
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yeah, so in general, when we talk about big questions like that we’re talking about bell curve studies. Eighty percent of the people on a bell curve respond kind of the same way. Twenty percent of people out at the edges do not. So when I designed these soundtracks I designed the soundtracks always for 30 minutes. Thirty minutes seems to be the sweet spot on the bell curve. If you – let’s say you want to increase your kind of mindfulness – to me, that’s an alpha state. That’s more like a Zen meditation state. So in a Zen meditation state, I’m sitting there with my eyes closed and I am very aware that I am breathing and that there is sensations I’m experiencing, there’s sounds coming from the street. There’s a light wind blowing through. There’s a fly buzzing around. Except none of those things have any more importance than anything else, it’s a moving mandala that I am objectively witnessing. That’s a classic alpha state of peripheral vision, right. The peripheral vision is my focus. Everything is my focus and that’s a very Zen kind of a thing. Brainwaves go into this alpha state with hemispheres synchronized. Each of those brain activities has a different kind of meditation thing that goes with it from various cultures - so various cultures have created doorways to the big kind of God room. There’s the big God room with a whole bunch of doors, and each door is a different meditation technique developed by different people and different cultures because they weren’t talking to each other – and now there’s all these different techniques for getting to the big room. One of those is tailor-made for you. It fits your characteristics perfectly. Zen meditation isn’t for everybody. It’s person match, it’s boring, it doesn’t work for me, I need theta meditation where I’m on a shamanic journey and I’m talking to my totem animal and I’m climbing in a cave and I’m meeting the great master who’s telling me a secret and I’m not aware that I’m in the room. I’m not aware that I’m sitting. Or I’m a delta state, which is a zero consciousness state. It’s like a bliss state and I’m not aware of time or space or anything. Or a gamma state.

48:09
Dr. Maya Novak:
So with these type of states, when we are talking about injury recovery, is any type of state more important than the other state? Or is this just completely individual and it’s impossible to say that people who are recovering from injuries who are healing their bodies, that they should be in one particular state?

48:37
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yeah, so to answer that question on a bell curve, no matter what condition you’ve got, there’s going to be a physical, emotional and a mental part of it – and a spiritual part. So, I would say that you start with the physical generic CD set. Start with balancing your physical and then move into an emotional one, which has to do with theta. Then move into a mental one, which has to do with different belief systems. Then move into spiritual ones and progress yourself through in a generic way. When an individual walks into my office all bell curves disappear because bell curves are studies of large population groups and I have no idea where you are on the bell curve. I don’t know if you’re a standard 80% or a way out here at the tippy 20%, right. I have no way of knowing that except by hooking you up to a heartrate variability and then that is going to show me a frequency that balances the core and then all the octaves of that tone. It’s like a wine glass. If I ping the wine glass and sing that note, it vibrates. If I sing any octave of that note, it vibrates. If I sing any harmonic of that note, it vibrates - octave resonance and harmonic resonance. It’s the same thing with your body. If I find this frequency that balances your nervous system, any octave of that frequency that I play will balance it because it’s all the same note, right. The middle A on a keyboard is 440, an octave below A is 220, 110, 55 – it’s all A. So that means that with the sound table, when I’m playing all those octaves through, some of those octaves are targeting your skin and some your muscles, and some your joints and some your bones, and some your fluids – your cerebral spinal fluids and lymphatic fluids and cardiovascular fluids. We can push those with sound waves, so I’m targeting all of them. But if I continue calculating lower and lower with my calculator, lower octaves, those aren’t sound anymore below 20 hertz, but I still have numbers. Those numbers are brainwave frequencies. States of consciousness that are associated closely with homeostasis. That means I’ve located precise brain frequencies accurate to a couple of decimal points in beta and alpha and theta and delta and gamma and all these other ones that are precise for you. When I entrain your brainwaves to any one of those octave brain states, this homeostasis happens. Even if I have no sound playing through the sound table, the entrainment itself is picking the lock of a hardwired neuro program that already exists in your brain for making this happen. I believe that’s what sleep is all about.

51:19
Dr. Maya Novak:
Mm-mm. So it is important that we have – it is better that we have something that is personalized because otherwise if we are in the 20% on either end of the bell curve it might not be the best thing, yes.

51:37
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
And how you would know is if you’re an 80% bell curve person and I created a soundtrack for the 80%, and I can extend it out to about 90% by moving the brainwave entrainment frequencies around and catching more people. If you had an orderly approach to whatever condition, you’ve got to address the physical and the emotional and the mental and the spiritual parts with a series of CDs that you used in a certain order as you march forward, you would have the most beneficial effect if you’re a standard person on the 80% bell curve. But if you’re way out of the tip, the generic one wouldn’t work very well for you.

52:11
Dr. Maya Novak:
Mm-mm.

52:11
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Right, so you’d pretty much tell well, this isn’t working for me. That’s because you need the other 20% or you need individualized help.

52:18
Dr. Maya Novak:
Yes. Dr. Jeff, what is your number one advice that you would give someone who is recovering from an injury?

52:27
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Injuries require me - to heal, I have to be here. If I’m not here, my healing properties are disengaged; I’m running another program that’s using up that energy. So I have to find some way to reach my center, my oasis. I’ve got my techniques and I’ve got these soundtracks and stuff like that. That’s one way you can use it. But I’m not the only person who does great work. There’s things that have stood the test of time, such as meditating. I think one of the best things you can do is just haul yourself out to some pristine beautiful nature area. Let nature heal you. I mean that’s the best meditation ever is to sit and meditate in nature and let nature – and commune with nature and then you enter into the pace of nature, and that’s a meditative pace anyway. It’s a mindfullessness state; it’s what happens in nature. So whatever it is that you have to do in order to get yourself centered and out of the rat race of stresses that are diverting you from being able to heal, which requires you to push in the clutch. You have to find a way to push in the clutch and disengage. Whatever it is that you have to do as a search, do that and so be it. On the other hand, when a person – nobody’s got the time, the schedule or the money to get sick – so everybody puts it off as long as possible until the symptoms are so bad that you’ve got to start looking. You start asking and you do Google searches on it or whatever it is that you do, you’re searching. You find somebody and you make an appointment, you look in your bank account and see how much money you’ve got and blah, blah. You get in your car and you drive there. The healing has already started right there. It’s already started because you crossed a point in yourself where you’re now activity doing something and willing to spend your life savings and take your time and go and do something and see somebody. It’s already happening.

54:20
Dr. Maya Novak:
It’s incredible. When we take that decision, we can – especially if we are really in tuned with the energies and intuition – it’s possible to feel that’s something’s started happening differently.

54:34
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
You shift something in yourself.

54:36
Dr. Maya Novak:
Yes.

54:36
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
You step on that path, and this an epic journey. For many people, it’s the epic journey of a lifetime. The journey to find the healer and the system that is going to heal me. You will usually go through a series of healers. This one doesn’t work, that one doesn’t work. You must never despair because that is the test of the universe. The universe isn’t just going to hand it to you on a silver platter; you’ve got to work for it. It’s kind of like the elders up there are going okay, just how serious is this guy really? And it’s lip service; let’s put him through a few tests to see if he’s like resolved this for real.

55:11
Dr. Maya Novak:
Yes. True.

55:12
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
A few curve balls, you know. No, you have to be steadfast and the more dedicated you are to weeding yourself through the people who might be able to heal a little bit of you but not the rest – I mean this person’s got that piece of the puzzle and this person’s got that piece. You keep persevering. You will arrive at the healing master who is designed for you.

55:34
Dr. Maya Novak:
That’s beautiful, beautiful advice. People sometimes, and especially when we are talking about healing from injuries that take a long time, sometimes people lose hope. What would you say to someone who is losing hope about their healing?

55:51
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
That’s essentially who I see. I’m the witch doctor at the end of the trail when everything else fails they come to me. I get the most gnarly, craziest symptom pictures you’ve ever seen, and many of those people have lost hope. I am their last hope and that’s a pretty scary concept for me as a human being to see somebody that’s landed their body on my doorstep to take care of and I’m their last hope. It’s like whoa, you know. The small mind goes oh no, what am I going to do, but the big mind says relax. All you have to do is what you know to do to help that body remove the impediments for its internal healing forces to come forth. No healing is coming from me, right. God does the healing, a doctor collects the bill. But the core element though is that you have lost hope you can’t possibly heal. The first thing that has to happen is you have to – that’s why I’m saying that you have to persevere until you find the healer that immediately when you see them – their demeanor and the way that they’re approaching your system – something inside of you goes I think I’ve found the person. I think this person can help me. A first glimmer of hope takes place and you can see it in a person’s eyes. You can see it shift the moment that the hope comes back. Then you’ve got a doorway that’s open slightly that you can now proceed to widen out and make it happen. You have to persevere until your hope comes back.

57:14
Dr. Maya Novak:
Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing this. It’s incredible advice to search, because when we do - when we take action, something will appear.

57:26
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
I think it’s part of the bigger picture of – you know, none of this that we experience in our lives is what it appears to be. We’re all being fooled. We’re all being hypnotized by what appears to be a physical universe where - if we study science at all – we realize that nothing is solid. I mean my body is made of cells that seem to be solid, but when I zoom in and I look at the cells they’re made of compounds. The compounds are made of atoms, and the atoms are made of protons, electrons, and neutrons, and those are made of quarks and other things and you keep breaking the parts open and get smaller parts – with new names we put on them, by the way. At some point, you get to the smallest part and you break it open and there’s nothing inside except energy pattern relationships in a state of vibration. It’s a standing wave. It’s like the sand on those metal plates that dances and forms patterns, all right. You change the frequency, the pattern shifts. That’s a quantum level. That is when – it looks like there’s lines, but when you look really close it’s just dancing sand particles that are coalescing to form what appears to be lines, but those are what’s called standing waves. At the core of all reality is nothing but something in a state of forming patterns as standing waves that look solid but they’re not. They look like particles, and you see particles, and protons and electrons until you zoom in close enough and realize that there’s not really that at all. It’s something smaller that’s not that at all, and something smaller and not that at all, it’s just vibration. Nested standing waves is what we are but the question is, is what the hell is vibrating? At the quantum root field, something is in a state of vibration forming patterns, forming standing waves. What is that something? We can’t see it, we can’t measure it. They call it dark matter. Now, they used to call it the ether.

59:16
Dr. Maya Novak:
I would absolutely love to explore and I know that I could talk with you for hours. I mean there is so much to discuss. One last question that I do have for you, it’s a bit more of a fun one. If you were stuck on a desert island with an injury and you could bring only one thing with you that would help you heal amazingly, what would that be?

59:40
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
That’s an easy one. My voice.

59:43
Dr. Maya Novak:
Why your voice? What is so important?

59:47
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Because my voice is a tone generator and I can produce any kind of tones and I could sing myself back to health. I could use my voice the same way a cat is using a purr. At a certain frequency, it heals muscle tissue. Another frequency heals bone. Another … right. So this brings me to another point – is the grand universal law that I call the law of GODDIFADIB – God Did It First And Did It Better. So if you’re interested in sound healing, it’s already here, right. It’s already been done. The cats are showing us a way. And if you’re a musician, you’re either a string musician or you’re a wind musician, right. But according to the principle of GODDIFADIB, we have a stringed instrument that’s blown with wind, both of them combine together, right. It just goes on and on like that. So yeah, I think the power of the voice. I mean use that. So at a certain point I’ll record your voice with 3D microphones singing this tone that balances your nervous system and I’ll play it on all kinds of different slowed down octaves through the sound table so only your unconscious mind can recognize it, a unique set of harmonics and overtones that makes your voice sound like you. And who is it that we’re trying to wake up? It’s that amorphous thing that’s resonating and creating standing waves. It’s the part of me that knows how to grow my body out of two cells and heal it. I’m trying to wake that part up with subconscious recognition of the pattern of harmonics of my voice, and besides that, all the harmonics match all my tissues perfectly, right. It’s just my voice that has these harmonics and overtones you can see on a scope. Those same harmonic overtones are in all my tissues. It’s just that the vocal cords happen to be a place I can blow wind through and then measure it on a screen. But the same harmonic series that’s in my voice is in all my tissues. It’s my personal timbre.

01:01:47
Dr. Maya Novak:
That’s really, really interesting what you just described, recording the voice and then using it for the subconscious mind as something that we actually know on really the deepest level. So Dr. Jeff, where can people find more about you?

01:02:08
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
I have a website. The website is scientificsounds.com. You can see me in the Heal documentary that’s on Netflix. That’s an award-winning thing, and the fact that that hit Netflix and it was sold out in every city it went to is hopeful because it means – it’s the conversation. It’s a holistic conversation that’s arising from the population. I don’t think it ever really went away, it just got commandeered by big money interests who wanted to sell you a pill. But holistic health has been out here since the beginning, right. Excuse me - complimentary to what? Alternative to who? Excuse me very much. We’ve been here first. You guys are the Johnny-come-latelies with your drugs and surgery. So it’s a way for them to label me and make me look less than – which is not the case at all. The real healing doesn’t come from a pill and doesn’t come from a needle. It comes from deep inside of you and it’s a spiritual journey. It’s the journey of your lifetime to be healthy, to be healed of the things that have happened to you. To find the journey of that is as epic as Gilgamesh and the Odyssey. It’s the great heroic journey of a person’s life. While we’re on that theme, what I was saying before is reality is not what it appears to be. It’s not a cheap series on television. It’s not Peyton Place. It’s an epic journey of the soul inhabiting bodies. Every atom in my body was once inside a star and all of the protons and all of the atoms in my body are the oldest particles in the universe. Some place inside of me is deeply networked into the core of the universe and knows how to grow my body out of two cells. A deeper part of my collective unconscious knows how to grow a planet. A deeper part knows how to grow a solar system and galaxy and a universe. The universe itself and the laws that govern it are not divorced from me. They come from the center of my soul. If I can go deep enough, I’ve got the answers to all the questions I ever wanted to ask. It’s there, but it’s before a thought and that’s what meditation’s been all about. That’s what tools for enhancing meditation have been all about and that el primo tool that has stood the test of time in every culture on earth is sound - the use of sound - the use of bowls and the voice and chanting and gongs.

01:04:52
Dr. Maya Novak:
Everything is about voice, yes. I mean sound.

01:04:54
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Sound is profound. It’s the first thing that springs from the womb, right. Nine months in the womb, the only thing I experienced is sound and vibration.

01:05:02
Dr. Maya Novak:
Dr. Jeff, thank you so much for being here. I so enjoyed this and I hope we can do it some other time as well.

01:05:10
Dr. Jeffrey Thompson:
Yeah, you’re welcome. Thank you.

01:05:13
Dr. Maya Novak:
This wraps up today’s talk with Dr. Jeffrey Thompson. If you haven’t done it yet, subscribe to the podcast Mindful Injury Recovery Talks on whatever platform you’re using to tune in, and share this episode with your loved ones – it really can change someone’s life. To access show notes, links, and transcript of today’s talk go to mayanovak.com/podcast. To learn more about The Mindful Injury Recovery Method visit my website mayanovak.com and find my book Heal Beyond Expectations on Amazon. Until next time – keep evolving, blooming, and healing.

Love and gratitude xx
Dr. Maya

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